God, Creator Of Universe ?
Questioner: when did the universe begin? Who did it? Who runs it and who’s the creator?
Pujya Niruma: whose question is this? Whose is this? Whose questions? How was the universe created, do you want to know this? It was never created. It’s timeless. It’s eternal, self-perpetuating. It’s something that’s forever, that’s eternal there’s no beginning; there’s no end, that’s what’s called eternal. The sun, moon, stars are all eternal. This earth, the ‘soul’, all these are eternal. All elements are eternal. Therefore, it was never created; that’s the meaning of eternal. There isn’t creation nor is there destruction, it’s forever. It is and always will be. Since it was never created, so there’s no question of a creator. It’s independently automatic. Who’s the creator, who does you feel is the creator? Who do you feel could be the creator? In imagination, what do you class as the creator?
Pujya Niruma: god? This is the biggest question. If god has created the world and runs the show, then one big question arises, why has he created such a world? Why does he run such a world where everyone’s suffering? To give everybody, torment? To give innumerable living beings, sorrow? Why did he need to have drought in saurastra, in kutch, in Gujarat? Why did he give all this pain? If he has to do this then do it equally to everybody! In ahmedabad, in one day it dropped twenty inches of rain and then complete scarceness. Had he given proper rains, how good would’ve the agriculture have been? If such is the operator, then he’s wrong, he should be removed; he should be dethroned. Once we say that he does it, so then many questions arise, which have no solutions, thereby voided this statement. It’s a contradiction, the biggest one. Do you understand? Do you understand what I said? Therefore, what’s been said over this side, in creedal religions differs when it comes to the knowledge of the absolute. Otherwise, whenever it comes to devotion, ritualistic worship and creedal religions, what you say is true that god runs everything. Then whichever religion they follow they consider that god to be the one and only. Rama’s devotees say, “who can touch the one who Rama protects”. Devotees of Lord Krishna say, “humans, why do you worry, Lord Krishna does as he wishes!” Whatever Lord Krishna does is correct. Those who follow swaminarayan bhagwan say, “not a stick can be broken without my wish”. o fool! What’s this talk of the sticks? The forest department people have cut all the forests. What’s this talk of sticks? People are slaughtered. What’s this talk of sticks? Does god have such intentions? What people have such intentions? Every third day, they tell us that the terrorists have killed so many people. Or someone has blown away/ killed someone. Then is this the fault of the terrorist or god? If god is managing everything, then who’s the criminal, is the doer at fault or is the instigator? The doers are all puppets, they’re intermediaries, where’s their fault? If this is true, then there’ll be many questions arise, look, if you make god the creator then you have to give an explanation of all these things; how much contradiction! Then the theory of karmas just disappears. We’re given birth and death according to his wishes. What our people say, oh our only son, god has killed him. That means you’ve made god into a murderer. Does what I’ve said, raise any questions? Does this make you think that there’s some contradiction? The way we’ve portrayed god, can god really be that way? However, this question arises, when did all this begin being kept in secrecy? If we say that god is the administrator the doer, the universal creator, then the theory of karmas doesn’t exist, that we’ve come with our karmas and we get its fruits, thereby this theorem is cancelled out. Do you understand? Therefore, all these things aren’t correct. This is destiny’s writing; many people say that destiny is written on the sixth day of a child’s birth; our people believe so, don’t they? The sixth day, what’s this about the sixth day! Before living even six days don’t many children die? People, don’t even think about this? They say on the sixth day but what about the first six days? Many die in the womb. There! Had goddess destiny then entered into the womb to write their destinies. She hasn’t written anything. If she’d come on the sixth day to write our destiny, I remember very well that on my sixth day, when she came to write my destiny, destiny forgot her pen. There! How was she to write anything?
Questioner: who created this universe?
Pujya Niruma: nobody has done it. It’s eternal. There are many eternal elements in this world, of these; non living objects, the soul, time, space and the five elements are all eternal. Something that’s eternal isn’t created neither is it destroyed. Something that isn’t created is called eternal. Therefore, this earth is eternal. Nobody has created this earth.
Questioner: who’s the administrator of this world?
Pujya Niruma: I said that just now! God doesn’t do anything, nobody does. It is automatic, it’s happening by itself.
Questioner: who should be considered as the true god and where is he?
Pujya Niruma: true… what’s your name.
Questioner: Surpal Singh.
Pujya Niruma: Surpal? True god, Surpal Singh, it’s within you…
Pujya Niruma: and that in fact is you yourself. You aren’t Surpal but you yourself are god. This Surpal is a neighbour, because of wrong beliefs; you believe that you are him.
Pujya Niruma: but you don’t recognise the real you. You’re the ‘soul’, that itself is god. There’s no other, above, here, there and he’s in all living beings. God is within everyone; therefore, think before you hurt anyone, because it’s reaching the god within him. Therefore, stop hurting anybody and if you hurt unwillingly, repent heartily, feel sorry and repent heartily.
Questioner: the sun, moon, stars, animals, birds, who created them all?
Pujya Niruma: nobody, they just exist.
Questioner: no, but this question occurs that who would have done all of this. How would it have happened?
Pujya Niruma: nobody has done it; it’s there by itself. This is elemental soul and others are non living elements. All this is a combination of these two. All this since time immemorial these two, soul and living (‘chetan’)… these living and non living elemental atoms have remained together. The universe is full of all this, there isn’t a vacuum.
Questioner: no, but is there anybody who created all this?
Pujya Niruma: had the creator been there, he would be called a great sinner. Why create something, where everybody is greatly suffering. In addition, all these Americans will firstly – missing catch hold of him, and not ‘bin-laden’, saying that he has done this. Do you understand? It’s not so. Otherwise, they would’ve caught and killed him long ago. They would’ve killed, the one who runs all this and created all of this. Had it been so the theory of karmas would’ve been blown away? We wouldn’t have anything to do, if there was any such creator and manager of the world. Do you understand? How much have you studied?
Questioner: up to college.
Pujya Niruma: hmm!
Questioner: up to B.A.
Pujya Niruma: what did you say? Have you a phd?
Questioner: no, no, up to B.A.
Pujya Niruma: B.Sc.? If you are a science student, you will understand. All these eternal elements get together in different combinations and disperse. Because of that, various types of combinations are formed. Because of illusion, we become trapped and can’t see the original elements.
Pujya Niruma: because of this, when you’ve this ‘spiritual knowledge (Gnan)’, these original elements come into your intuitive perception. Then this question goes away. Nobody does anything, it just happens. All this is happening automatically because of circumstantial pressure. One circumstance pushes the other; the second one pushes the third in the sky, whereby water is formed; h20 is equal to water. Therefore, who goes up to form that?
Questioner: the world’s creation, hasn’t been done by anyone, it’s done by circumstances but saints, monks and books say that god made this world. So, is there any creator?
Pujya Niruma: Gnanis have said that there isn’t any creators or managers and what saints and monks say is as per their understanding. It’s what we understand and it’s up to us what we believe. Spiritual teacher (self realized Gnani purush) speak after seeing through the realities of the whole universe transparently and these saints and monks say, what the fact are … we’ve to judge which ones are correct. If you do deep study of all the scriptures, this will also be revealed. Even these saints and monks say it’s self created, that the soul is god, only you are, I’m the creator, I’m the destroyer. Then who’s up there, to become an administrator? Only you are! Do you understand?
Questioner: we are, only we are, if we’ve created this then there must be a universal creator?
Pujya Niruma: all this is eternal. If something’s eternal, it’s contradictory to have a creator. Your ‘soul’ is eternal. These inert atoms are also eternal. This sun, moon, stars, all are eternal. Who can create them? All these are imaginations! Questions of wrong belief.
Questioner: We get confused with all such questions. What’s the real meaning of this? What are we to understand?
Pujya Niruma: its reason is that these two things have been combined. Therefore, people have become confused. All the stories, rituals are on one side and on the other side is to know the eternal element. Both are mixed up so people are confused. Differentiating the two is required. Saying this is fiction, which is ok for that stage. That’s for nursery but if one has to graduate, they’ll have to further their understanding. Otherwise, if you call god, the creator, how hazardous it becomes for him! That’s a big accusation! He’s blamed though; he hasn’t done anything. If he runs this world, should it be done like this? America is burning there. This world is alight. How many times has this world been alight! Does god run it like this! This earthquake, does god do such things! This question also comes up simultaneously.
Questioner: such questions happen very often when we read such things.
Pujya Niruma: therefore, some time… all the scriptures have told that the scriptures are weapons. Read in guidance of a spiritual teacher (self-realized Gnani Purush), not saints and devotees. Narsinh Mehta also said, after worshipping Lord Krishna a lot but what did he say ultimately? ‘as long as the ‘soul’ isn’t realized, all worship is in vain’ . He too called it false there. To devotees also he says it’s false. ‘I do, I do, that is ignorance, just as a dog carries the weight of a cart; the universe is self created, only some ascetics know.’ ascetics mean those who have full self realization. He said that only they know. Though he was a great devotee, still he said it isn’t me but one who is self realized, knows this. If he knew, he could have said in another sentence that god created the world? What you know, the saints and devotees also know, wouldn’t he have known that?
Questioner: yes, we say the same now. Then others say that god runs the world, only god can do, god is the doer then god…
Pujya Niruma: in all sectarian religions, these sects have made their sectarian god the whole and sole doer. Therefore, all the devotees of that sect live on dependence of that god. So they’re frightened into living properly. If you do wrong, god will punish you. If you commit sin, you’ll go to hell. They scare them like little children. It’s all about unsettling them. And what’s said is correct. Otherwise, not all these will behave properly. However, when you enter the temple of ‘spiritual knowledge (Gnan)’, it’s different. You’re responsible for yourself. There isn’t any god who’ll give you your karmic fruits. You receive only your karmic fruits.
Questioner: yes, I understand.
Pujya Niruma: what’s said, is the finality. You are whole and sole responsible for your deeds. There is no one to give you fruits of karma, no one to judge you. Your judgement happens within you, on the spot. The thoughts with which you charge the atoms they discharge with the same feelings. It’s natural. Nobody can do anything in that.
Questioner: that’s correct.
Pujya Niruma: in stories, just to make them more interesting, they mix up so many things. Only then will these childlike people sit otherwise they would be drunk and playing rummy. Their women will go around criticising people. So if they sit for some time for narrations or stories, will do them good. In that, it is clearly told in Gita that out of one hundred thousand people who read one will understand the gross meaning. Of such, one hundred thousand that understand the gross meaning only one will understand the subtle meaning, of one hundred thousand people who understand the subtle meaning only one will get the subtler meaning and of one hundred thousand people who understand the subtler meaning, only one will get the subtlest meaning. He will be the real ‘Lord Krishna’. Now tell me who qualifies for this. Which saint or devotee qualifies only when a spiritual teacher (self realized Gnani purush) comes and explains, does this become clear. Dada was such a spiritual teacher (self realized Gnani purush) of this era. He used to live in Gujarat, in Vadodara, our neighbourhood. If someone left someday, leaving this legacy, you’d understand. He revealed all this after experiencing all the secrets of the scriptures regarding the ‘soul’. He himself has said, after being through every atom of the universe, seeing all that there is, there isn’t anyone up there. There isn’t a god up there who has created or manages any world. Whatever is within you, you yourself are. This is the ultimate spiritual knowledge (Gnan), Lord Krishna lived by this spiritual knowledge (Gnan). Lord mahavir lived by this spiritual knowledge (Gnan). Lord Rama and Lord shiva also lived by this ‘spiritual knowledge (Gnan)’. Therefore I’m brahma is said, therefore I’m Lord shiva is said, that’s why I’m soul is said, that’s why I’m god can be said, or else it can’t be said, because if he resided above, this couldn’t be said. Otherwise, they’d come and dispose of you. They’d take me away first, saying why does she speak wrongly of me. However, there isn’t anybody, it’s within, therefore he becomes happy that she’s teaching well to others. Everyone else get it wrong. ‘I’ is within if you look within you will find. It has never been found above. Although there isn’t a creator or manager. Instead, if we call him the creator, we then have someone to accuse. If he manages the world then whatever disaster has happened in America, has he done it! The earthquake we had, he created. It’s a big blame on him. He doesn’t do anything; all this is natural. It’s everybody’s own account.